Thema "Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone" in Archiv_DSL

Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 07:58:32 GMT

Dear Sir/Madam,

I apologize for the English, but my German girlfriend has gotten zero assistance over the phone or at Vodafone Stores for the past 3 months. At this point, we are frustrated beyond measure.

We are current mobile phone customers and former Internet customers. We would like to remain internet customers, but Vodafone has been incompetent and unable to provide any answers.

We moved apartments in Hamburg in February 2018. In January 2018, we contacted Vodafone to tell them we were moving. We gave them the new address. Vodafone confirmed they could move our service to the new address. The day after we moverd, Vodafone cancelled our contract and told us they could not service our new address.

We tried multiple service providers (1&1, Telekom, etc.). None could service us. We discovered that the previous renter still had a contract with Vodafone on the line in our apartment. In March, we contacted Vodafone again, and they confirmed that the previous renter still has the line, but that they could switch it to us.

1 month later, Vodafone has not switched the line and refuses to tell us why they cannot switch the line. And further, have told us we cannot get internet at the new apartment until May 24, when the contract of the previous renter expires.

When my girlfriend called the Vodafone service/sales line, they put her on hold for many minutes, then told her there was nothing they could do. When she said she was not satisfied and discovered that the representative had not actually contacted the technical team like he said he would, they hung up on her.

She left a horrible review for the caller and she has faxed Vodafone to let them know she is cancelling our phone contract and we are taking our business elsewhere.

We have been without internet for 3 months. Vodafone has been completely unhelpful. They are allowing a previous renter to block our phoneline even though he has not lived in the home since February. Every phone representative we have spoken with has given zero answers. My colleagues have no explanation for me and my family in USA is shocked that a company could display such disregard for their own customers.

I hope to get this resolved at some point. But I have zero faith in Vodafone's ability to simply communicate in good faith with a paying customer, let alone provide satisfactory customer service.

With sincerest disappointment,

Matthew

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

DSS1 — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:10:44 GMT

tl;dr

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

Der Ritter — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:26:14 GMT

What I fail to see is why you put the blame on Vodafone in a first instance.

There most probably is an existing contract between Vodafone and the previous owner/renter. Vodafone cannot simply (and possibly prematurely) cancel this contract. The only person you should feel disappointed about and your family in the USA should be shocked about in a first instance is hence the person actually blocking the line.

Vodafone has also no legal rights to approach the previous renter and demand that he/she should cancel the contract. It is rather sad, no doubt, but there is not really much that Vodafone or any other provider can do if the previous renter decides not to let go of the line beforen the contract ends.

Imagine it this way: You're driving through town in the USA on a sunny day at 10 a.m., trying to find a place to park your car. There is a parking spot where a person is simply sitting idly in his/her car, doing nothing. However, this person has bought a parking voucher that is valid until 11 a.m. and has decided to wait until the ticket expires.

Do you then blame the city, feel disappointed and frustrated because of the city officials, and is your family shocked that no city representative had the car towed away immediately so that you could use the parking spot the other person has paid for? I guess not.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:34:02 GMT

But the previous renter does not live at the apartment anymore. By your logic, I can sign a 2 year contract at every residence in the city and hold them hostage,even though I do not live there. Once you give up residency at a location, you give up your rights to hold the line. They cannot cancel his contract, but they cannot restrict the owner of the property from the ability to get internet.

In your analogy, the person would not be sitting in their car, they would place a cone there so no one can use the spot, but they would not actively be there using it.

And this is something I forgot to add to the post, but the previous renter is still a Vodafone customer at his new address. But Vodafone created a new account rather than simply transferring the old.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 08:46:01 GMT

TL;DR Previous renter is still blocking line 3 months after leaving apartment - Vodafone offers no solution and hangs up on us during phone call

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:37:09 GMT

Vodafone Service contacted me and confirmed that previous tenants have more rights to a phoneline/DSL than current tenants do...

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

Der Ritter — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:51:04 GMT

So just to understand this: You have obviously been told multiple times and over various contact channels that Vodafone has no legal means of "kicking out" the previous contract owner in your favor, based on contractual laws and legislation in Germany.

What precisely is it that you wish to achieve with this post? I don't quite get it.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:55:35 GMT

They do have legal means. The customer no longer lives at the residence. He continues to pay his bill, they continue to charge him. But they have no legal right to restrict my access to a phoneline in my own home.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

Der Ritter — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 09:58:49 GMT

@jujubeess@ schrieb:

They do have legal means.

And which legal means would that be? Please explain into a little more detail. Thanks.

@jujubeess@ schrieb:

He continues to pay his bill, they continue to charge him.

And that's what a contract is all about: All parties involved fulfilling their contractual duties.

@jujubeess@ schrieb:

But they have no legal right to restrict my access to a phoneline in my own home.

And which of your legal rights are being violated? Please explain into a little more detail. Thanks.

Could you please also answer my question from above:

@Der Ritter@ schrieb:

What precisely is it that you wish to achieve with this post? I don't quite get it.

Thanks.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 10:12:39 GMT

The contract is only valid for that tenant at the particular residence. He is no longer a resident. He still owes the money, but he retains no rights to the property.

Which rights are being violated? Let’s change the scenario. Pretend I am 95 years old, with no cell phone, moving to a new address. Without a phone line I am unable to communicate with the outside world. But because the previous tenant left before his contract expired, I am now forced to live in social isolation and a dangerous situation. I am complaining about lack of internet, but this also includes the inability to establish a phone connection too.

I wish for them to grant me access, remove the previous tenants access, continue to charge the previous tenant, and allow me to pay them for my access. If the previous tenant desires the line again, he must prove residence at the home (I.e. his registration with the city).

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

Der Ritter — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:15:11 GMT

Unfortunately you still have not replied to my actually rather simple question:

@Der Ritter@ schrieb:

What precisely is it that you wish to achieve with this post? I don't quite get it.

I seriously wonder why. Could it be that you do have all the correct answers and they just don't fit in with your world of dreams? It alsmost seems so...

@jujubeess@ schrieb:
The contract is only valid for that tenant at the particular residence.

Please post a link to the legal foundation in Germany for this claim.

@jujubeess@ schrieb:
Which rights are being violated? Let’s change the scenario. (...)

Please don't try to deflect. Don't get me wrong: I understand your situation quite well, but yet still there is no violation of any of your rights as far as I can see. And besides: Simply "kicking out" the previous contract owner would possibly be a violation of his/her rights.

@jujubeess@ schrieb:
I wish for them to grant me access, remove the previous tenants access, continue to charge the previous tenant, and allow me to pay them for my access. If the previous tenant desires the line again, he must prove residence at the home (I.e. his registration with the city).

Well, unfortunately this is no more than wishful thinking. And just on a side note: If Vodafone does cancel the connection, they also have no right to charge the previous tenant any longer.

And now please be as kind as to reply to the question above. Thanks.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:44:22 GMT

I have not memorized the German law books. But based on your theory, the owner of a particular property does not have the right to access their own phone line? Is that correct? If I purchase a home, and the previous owner did not cancel his contract properly, and he continues to pay the bill, he is allowed to hold my phoneline hostage?

We are not "kicking out" the previous contract owner and are not "canceling the contract". He has a right to internet at the residence. But that is not his current residence. By vacating the premises, canceling his lease on the property, he has forfeited all rights to use the property (which includes all connections and services on that property).

And my newly introduced scenerio is actually the reason that you can not maintain ownership of a utility at an address for which you have no legal standing. The contract must be paid by the customer. They have a binding agreement with the individual, not with the building in perpetuity.

This is not a "dream world", according to the EU regulations, which provides basic communication services . Now, I have contacted the Bundesnetzagentur about this complaint.

So I repeat, what do i wish to happen? I wish for them to grant access, remove the previous tenants access at this location, continue to charge the previous tenant, and allow me to pay them for my access. If the previous tenant desires the line again, he must prove residence at the home (Ie his registration with the city) or wherever he currently lives .

Vodafone is required to maintain their contract and supply internet at their new residence if it is within their network.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

Der Ritter — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:52:55 GMT

@jujubeess@ schrieb:

By vacating the premises, canceling his lease on the property, he has forfeited all rights to use the property (which includes all connections and services on that property).

Where does it say so? Please post links to the respective laws and legislation. Thanks.

As said before, I fully understand your desperation and your wish to get this resolved. However, between "I wish they would..." and "Seems like they can't..." there is a rather wide gap at times.

@jujubeess@ schrieb:

Now, I have contacted the Bundesnetzagentur about this complaint.

Then we can close this thread for the time being, I guess. If an issue is addressed to an instance such as the BNetzA (or, as in other cases many claim to do, their lawyer), then no moderator can assist you here any longer and we will have to wait for the outcome.

Betreff: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

jujubeess — Thu, 26 Apr 2018 12:35:24 GMT

You are asking me to find a law that says explicitly that only the owners/renters of a home have a right to access that home and use the things inside that home? Isn't the Right of Private Property in the constitution enough?

And if a moderator would like to close the thread, I would appreciate their reasoning in an actual response. But since you are the only person responding, and the moderators are not helping me, I believe the thread should remain open. I have been hoping for an official response from a Vodafone entity confirming or denying my assertion. But as of now, I have only been told "We cannot help you." That is not a satisfactory answer. I am guarenteed a right to make and recieve phone calls from a fixed location. Vodafone is infringing on that right. I want them to explain why.

Re: Previous renter blocking line, zero answers from Vodafone

Jens-K — Sat, 28 Apr 2018 10:17:07 GMT

Hi jujubeess,

I think Der Ritter already said everything regarding this topic.

We have no right to cancel another customer's contract. The line is neither yours nor the property of the previous tenant. It belongs to the Deutsche Telekom, which we and every other DSL provider rent the lines from.

I understand that this is a frustrating situation, but as you heard here, on Facebook and our hotline there is no solution. You will not receive any other info.

If there is a cable connection available this could be an alternative. But I guess you already checked this.

I close this thread.

Regards,

Jens